CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

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flatbeat
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CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by flatbeat » Fri May 10, 2019 1:09 pm

Reported on here at the time when I fitted a VS exhaust system that performance was down by approx 15-20% both power and torque. Also had to turn the idle up as wouldn’t tick over. Bus used to pull from 22mph in 4th gear but with VS would only pull from 30mph. Decided to fit a CSP sidewinder system and performance back to ‘normal’. Bus pulls from 22 like a train. Pulls up the local hills so much better again. Also when I removed the VS system 2 of the exhaust gaskets were burnt and would have needed replacing. This is a problem others I have spoken to have reported.
Shame as the VS system looks cool....but clearly not good for performance.

On a different note...VeeWee aka GSF’s new Heat Exchangers are spot on with correct internal fins and work very well producing really good heat :D
Packed a few belongings and headed out to Pirates Cove. In my buddy’s old grey Kombi we rolled until the gas got low.....

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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by Dougie » Fri May 10, 2019 1:45 pm

What size engine is this on?
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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by ScottyN » Fri May 10, 2019 2:01 pm

flatbeat wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 1:09 pm


On a different note...VeeWee aka GSF’s new Heat Exchangers are spot on with correct internal fins and work very well producing really good heat :D
How do these measure up to originals? I’m looking for some at the moment but woefully unimpressed with those available to buy new!

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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by type21f » Fri May 10, 2019 2:14 pm

I find this strange I have a side exit standard VS exhaust fitted to my CPR 1766cc and it pulls 95bhp at the wheels. The power curve seems fine as mapped on the rolling road?
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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by Dougie » Fri May 10, 2019 3:38 pm

type21f wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:14 pm
I find this strange I have a side exit standard VS exhaust fitted to my CPR 1766cc and it pulls 95bhp at the wheels. The power curve seems fine as mapped on the rolling road?
That's why I asked the engine size. I'd heard/read somewhere VS were 'only' good to 150 bhp then can't cope. 150 bhp I don't think my nerves could cope, but that's another story.
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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by vwJim » Fri May 10, 2019 4:09 pm

Yep, interested what engine size and what exhaust version this was on as they do several.

The scavenging effect of a sidewinder will be better than any VS as they're designed for different functions.

I've certainly seen the VS fail when 135+ pushed through them, so IMHO the 150 claim is a bit optimistic.
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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by flatbeat » Fri May 10, 2019 5:22 pm

Not a big engine at all....it’s a Single Port stroker. 88mm thick walled barrels and pistons and 74mm stroke crank = 1800cc. Amazing torque which is what it was built for...best bus engine I’ve ever had. Will (now) pull from 22mph in 4th gear and cruise at 80mph...on the sat nav...so genuine 80mph and return over 30mpg fully loaded. Freeway Flier box.

The VS system was the 125bhp version with HE’s. I commented on here before how I noticed a drop in performance as soon as I fitted it. The fact that it was burning gaskets (after 500 miles) and dropped the idle speed would suggest too much back pressure...I’ve heard that the internal design of the VS is crap....that’s from an exhaust engineer.
The down side with CSP is the price I guess...but then you get what you pay for eh?


As best as I can tell the VeeWee HE’s produce as much heat as the old OE ones. Big improvement over the CSP ones I had on the other bus...much better.

All of this is just my experience :wink: :D
Packed a few belongings and headed out to Pirates Cove. In my buddy’s old grey Kombi we rolled until the gas got low.....

1965 11 Window aka 'Rustina'.
1961 Beetle.

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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by vwJim » Fri May 10, 2019 9:21 pm

That's interesting stuff.

They do suffer from gasket failure which is why I don't use their gaskets anymore.

I'm going you build a thickwall 92 x 69 with a Michael Hausman exhaust / heat exchangers so the veewee units might be the option there too.
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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by flatbeat » Fri May 10, 2019 10:01 pm

I believe M Housman has a view on VS systems....his are very good and flow really well. I already had the CSP in stock so went with that but would’ve gone with one of his. V happy with the CSP tho...

I think you’d be happy enough with the VeeWee H E’s Jim.
Packed a few belongings and headed out to Pirates Cove. In my buddy’s old grey Kombi we rolled until the gas got low.....

1965 11 Window aka 'Rustina'.
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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by vwJim » Fri May 10, 2019 10:17 pm

Cheers.
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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by seablue67 » Mon May 13, 2019 12:05 pm

I went with a BAS system via Stateside Tuning as they said the VS stuff was pretty poor, initially on a 1641 but now on a 2084. VS is cheap and sound ok (although perhaps too loud for many), but for longevity and performance others are better. So I'm told. Not direct experience of VS.


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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by flatbeat » Mon May 13, 2019 12:38 pm

Well that’s the thing with CSP stuff...can’t fault the quality. Got to be good to be Tuv approved.
Packed a few belongings and headed out to Pirates Cove. In my buddy’s old grey Kombi we rolled until the gas got low.....

1965 11 Window aka 'Rustina'.
1961 Beetle.


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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by JonnyCJ » Thu May 16, 2019 7:03 pm

Will Dan be along shortly ?


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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by flatbeat » Thu May 16, 2019 7:20 pm

JonnyCJ wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:03 pm
Will Dan be along shortly ?
There’s not a good story behind me getting my VS system...but won’t go there on a public forum :(
Packed a few belongings and headed out to Pirates Cove. In my buddy’s old grey Kombi we rolled until the gas got low.....

1965 11 Window aka 'Rustina'.
1961 Beetle.

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Re: CSP vs Vintage Speed Exhaust

Post by orb » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:25 am

Also worthy of note is that the CSP system was designed by Johannes Persson of JPM in Sweden, not sure there was a lot of performance consideration when designing the VS system!

Johannes is a genius and no mistake, his raptor cams on the right engine combo will give you an extra 30hp over any other cam design out there (pretty much every performance cam made for a VW motor is based on tried and tested American V8 grinds that have been around since the 60’s) His new Wasp system with tuned header will give 15hp over the Python which was always the best in terms of producing power.

A lot of his work is for Honda and KTM, he’s the guy getting a reliable 75-80hp out of the 450cc single that power the KTM Dakar racers and who can forget Petes cool as f**k beetle that’s making around 260hp with no turbo or gas and displacing just 1776cc
https://youtu.be/uiEk_sE4Yzs

So if you’re after looks then you might choose a VS or if you’re on a budget but if you’re interested in making power it’s CSP all the way :wink:

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