Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

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Ray J
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Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by Ray J » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:41 pm

Hi. Stripped my 1600tp engine whilst it was out of the bus. Everything looked in good shape apart from a cracked head. Cases still together and rods are off. Crank turned freely until I re torqued the case nuts! If I get a ratchet and socket on the pulley nut I can turn the crank and it moves freely but as soon as I stop turning it binds and I have to give it a bit of umph. Flywheel is still on. I did give the bottom end a flush out with degreaser, could it just be a lack of oil on the bearings? Wish I'd left it alone now! :(

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Bren Ralls
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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by Bren Ralls » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:58 am

Re check bearing are located correct and dowel pins that hold them. If you removed dowel pins make sure they are back in original holes. Oil or lube is a must.

Although as you've split the case now worth checking if crank needs a re grind, new bearings and a complete bottom end check. Short term expense now but long term saving.
Last edited by Bren Ralls on Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by BJ1 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:41 am

It's not clear if you have split the case. If you haven't and it's binding then you will have to split it anyway. You really can't get away with "flushing out" the bottom end - that is a sure road to the crank seizing because you will have stirred up all the gunge in the case bottom, including a surprising amount of metal fragments, especially in a high mileage engine. Those will end up in the bearings. Sorry mate but that case needs to come apart and be thoroughly cleaned before new bearings, crank check etc etc. Buy Tom Wilson's book on rebuilding engines and you will be able to do it properly.
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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by Ray J » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:19 pm

Cases are still together, I had no intention of splitting them as the rest of the engine is in such good nick. only thing left on is flywheel and dizzy drive shaft. Crank was turning fine until I checked the case bolts and nipped them up. Engine ran fine before I took it out. Only stripped it because I don't know it's history and we're going to Spain and Portugal in it in June.

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type21f
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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by type21f » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:25 pm

Alloy case...
What torque did you tighten to?
Correct torque or too high?
G
Last edited by type21f on Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by Ray J » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:00 pm

25 ft Ibs for the bearing bolts and 14 for the others as per John muirs book, although if I back them off a bit it spins fine.
I am slightly confused (doesn't take a lot) by the torque settings in the John muir book. Next to the 25 ft Ibs it has 18 ft Ibs in brackets. Did vw change the thread sizes?
Last edited by Ray J on Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by rodntod » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:16 pm

If it's 8mm studs in the case you use the lower torque setting,and higher setting for 10mm studs.I should add if you have turned it backwards without the dizzy in place it will have pushed the shaft up and chewed the brass drive gear at the bottom.
Last edited by rodntod on Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by Ray J » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:26 pm

Reet, think mine are 8mm so I'm going to torque them to the lower setting when I get home and see what occurs. Have yet to check the dizzy drive. Should have probably just added all this to my last post! I shall report back

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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by BJ1 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:12 am

rodntod wrote:If it's 8mm studs in the case you use the lower torque setting,and higher setting for 10mm studs.I should add if you have turned it backwards without the dizzy in place it will have pushed the shaft up and chewed the brass drive gear at the bottom.
What "10mm" studs? I think you are talking about the head studs.

There are only 8mm studs on the case joint all Type 1 engines plus the larger main bearing studs. Just to end this confusion - the case parting line 8mm studs are torqued to 15 ft lbs and the mains studs are 25 ft lbs. If the crank is binding at these torques then as said above you may have damaged the dizzy drive gear. Unfortunately that's the brass one on the crank so you will have to split the case if it needs renewing. It's not a big deal if you do it carefully and follow Tom Wilson's book - John Muir (RIP) is OK but sometimes a tad hard to follow. To remove the dizzy gear you will need either a press (aka local garage) or a puller specifically made for the job.
1966 Westy in Velvet Green - being restored
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1967 Sundial from Idaho
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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by rodntod » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:16 am

BJ1 wrote:
rodntod wrote:If it's 8mm studs in the case you use the lower torque setting,and higher setting for 10mm studs.I should add if you have turned it backwards without the dizzy in place it will have pushed the shaft up and chewed the brass drive gear at the bottom.
What "10mm" studs? I think you are talking about the head studs.

There are only 8mm studs on the case joint all Type 1 engines plus the larger main bearing studs. Just to end this confusion - the case parting line 8mm studs are torqued to 15 ft lbs and the mains studs are 25 ft lbs. If the crank is binding at these torques then as said above you may have damaged the dizzy drive gear. Unfortunately that's the brass one on the crank so you will have to split the case if it needs renewing. It's not a big deal if you do it carefully and follow Tom Wilson's book - John Muir (RIP) is OK but sometimes a tad hard to follow. To remove the dizzy gear you will need either a press (aka local garage) or a puller specifically made for the job.
Sorry i was having a senior moment there i think :oops: BJ1 is spot on with all of the above.

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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by BJ1 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:09 pm

Ha ha - I know all about senior moments Rod. I have at least 5 a day :roll:
Last edited by BJ1 on Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1966 Westy in Velvet Green - being restored
1967 Devon from Devon still in Devon
1967 Sundial from Idaho
1971 Westfalia from LA
1971 patina Delux from Montana now living in Germany
1972 Devon now owned by No 1 son!

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Re: Crankshaft binding after torquing case bolts

Post by tufty65 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:27 pm

As you've stripped most of it and now something is definitely wrong I would strip it right down and get yourself the Tom Wilson book and do it properly or you won't make the ferry let alone Portugal & Spain.
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