Starter motor issues

cloudinspector
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: lancashire

Starter motor issues

Post by cloudinspector »

I've been having starter motor problems on and off for a while now. After trying two old ones I've fitted a new Bosch starter but I'm still having issues so I'm wondering if the fault is elsewhere. Basically when the ignition key is turned the lights dim slightly but the starter usually doesn't turn. No click, nothing. However occasionally it decides to turn and start ok.
I've removed the starter and re-fitted, checked the connections are good and cleaned a dodgy earth strap. On first try it turned fine then after that nothing.
Could this be a fault in the ignition barrel? I've thought about shorting out the starter to isolate the ignition switch and see if that works.
Any ideas folks?
1956 PANEL
2009 62' tug style narrowboat (home)
http://www.narrowboatmervyn.blogspot.co.uk
talk is cheap but shouting's free

User avatar
Samba63
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:00 am
Location: Staffordshire, near Wolverhampton

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Samba63 »

Did you replace the brass bush in the gearbox housing? That's where the end of the spindle of the starter motor engages to complete the circuit to energise the starter motor.
I don't like injustice!

User avatar
Sjtw
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 1247
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Sjtw »

I would suggest the bush too if you haven't changed it.
That was the source of my trouble.
Steve

cloudinspector
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: lancashire

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by cloudinspector »

To be honest I haven't changed the bush simply because I didn't think it was that critical. Obviously I was mistaken.
1956 PANEL
2009 62' tug style narrowboat (home)
http://www.narrowboatmervyn.blogspot.co.uk
talk is cheap but shouting's free

Robgrav
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Robgrav »

Let me know what bush you need. I have a couple brand new kicking about as I seemed to keep ordering the wrong one when I had starter trouble.

MarkFer
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 769
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by MarkFer »

I have exactly this issue - the exact same symptoms.

Went through the usual, low voltage tests etc. Measured voltage at the starter motor with someone turning the key, all good.

Read on here that the starter motor's bush is part of the circuit and if it is worn then that may give the same symptoms. I assume sometimes it touches the motor shaft so the key works, other times it doesn't.

Then I also read a suggestion to run a 2nd cable from the spare terminal on the back of the starter motor through the bulkhead which you can touch onto the battery terminal directly to test. So I did that. So far after a couple of months EVERY time the starter key fails I go to the back, open the hatch, touch the cable onto the battery terminal and it turns over.

I'd love someone to explain.

Mark.

Robgrav
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Robgrav »

What starter motor do you have. I ended up running wires, buying new ignition switch, numerous bushes and it turned out to be the starter motor. Months and months I searched and was reluctant to change the starter as it was new on the bus when we bought it. But it was a cheap £70 ish one and complete rubbish. Got a Bosch one now.

MarkFer
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 769
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by MarkFer »

No idea what make mine is, new about 4 years ago but not a Bosch. Still can't understand why mine always works with the direct wire every time the ignition switch doesn't work...

User avatar
Stevep
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Stevep »

Do you have a hot start relay in the starter circuit?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Stevep
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 323
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:04 pm

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Stevep »

Many buses have hot start relays because of distance from ign switch to starter motor!Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

64beetlebaby
Registered user
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:06 pm

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by 64beetlebaby »

The bell housing bush has nothing to do with completing the starter circuit

it supports the armature ( end bearing ) if it wears the armature runs off center in the motor housing
this can cause the starter to jam in its housing and not engage when the solenoid is asked to operate it has all the symptoms of a bad connection
or low battery voltage

Starter motors can often be bought back to life with new ( bearings ) bushes at both ends polish the commutator and fit a new set of brushes
once the armature is free to rotate and brush contact is good they will work again

a worn support bush will also cause premature wear on the starter engagement dogs and flywheel

cloudinspector
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 888
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:56 pm
Location: lancashire

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by cloudinspector »

All sorted. New bush fitted and problem solved
1956 PANEL
2009 62' tug style narrowboat (home)
http://www.narrowboatmervyn.blogspot.co.uk
talk is cheap but shouting's free

User avatar
Sjtw
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 1247
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:12 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Sjtw »

:) great stuff. Well done forum!
Steve

User avatar
vwJim
SSVC Committee Member
SSVC Committee Member
Posts: 19981
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:05 pm
Location: under a bus in Hampshire...
Contact:

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by vwJim »

MarkFer wrote:I have exactly this issue - the exact same symptoms.

Went through the usual, low voltage tests etc. Measured voltage at the starter motor with someone turning the key, all good.

Read on here that the starter motor's bush is part of the circuit and if it is worn then that may give the same symptoms. I assume sometimes it touches the motor shaft so the key works, other times it doesn't.

Then I also read a suggestion to run a 2nd cable from the spare terminal on the back of the starter motor through the bulkhead which you can touch onto the battery terminal directly to test. So I did that. So far after a couple of months EVERY time the starter key fails I go to the back, open the hatch, touch the cable onto the battery terminal and it turns over.

I'd love someone to explain.

Mark.

Jen has one of these emergency wires too, as hers used to do the same.

Hot start relay seems to be the solution on hers, so it's volt drop across the loom.
Supplying quality in house designed items plus parts from SyncLink, Kennedy Clutches, & CB Performance. Also fitting service including modifications & mechanical upgrades.

MarkFer
SSVC Member
SSVC Member
Posts: 769
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: Starter motor issues

Post by MarkFer »

Jim - that's what I'd decided on too. I still don't understand why it only sometimes doesn't work though. How do you get a variable voltage drop? Dodgy connection somewhere? The state of the battery charge (not completely flat of course) doesn't seem to effect when it does/does not work.

Post Reply