Front Beam Options Technical Topic

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camper driver
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by camper driver » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:36 am

What are your thoughts on this?
IRS rear -
Front has a 68 bay beam with adjusters in, I had a similar problem 15 inch wheels 185 / 55 tyres. The bus seemed to tramline and the wheels rubbed on the front arches.
I picked up some 14 inch wheels that have had the centres removed and rewelded in with an offset ET. i.e. the wheels sit about 30 mm in on each side. it gives the look of a norrowed beam but with the same staering geometry. wheels have been proffesionally done and are well balanced and concentric.
Has anybody else done this?
Are there any potential problems with it?

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bobley
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by bobley » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:12 pm

RUN AWAY!

You cant go changing offsets like that. If the centre of the tyre is inboard of the steering axis it will feel very strange to drive. Will it even self centre?

Cut your losses and go back to a K&L beam, I've spent a fortune on narrower ball joint beam, welded dropped spindles and rediculously expensive shocks and then made a narrowed anti roll bar and it certainly wasn't worth all the hassle and I've just got a few issues to sort... (it does drive very nicely on the fly though)

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vanimal
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by vanimal » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:32 pm

I have a cuple of questions. having just done a straight axle convertion on my 66 bus I have fitted an adjuster kit on the front beam to level it out with the help of 165/60 14 tyres. due to budget(not a lot of spare cash) I will probably need to fit dropped spindles at a later date. Can anyone sugest where to get a resonable priced set. One of my problems is that my 66 is running up to 63 front brakes (changed before I purchased the bus)so i dont know what year spindles are fitted.
My next problem is shocks, I am sure my stock shocks are bottoming out so I need some shorter ones can anyone advise which ones I could use.
Thanks
Nigel

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vwJim
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by vwJim » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:51 pm

If you're running 'up to 63 brakes' then you have early spindles. So would need them to match, Radish does good value DS. Though if you're running early brakes on a later bus, you're spending far more on brake parts than you need to, as they cost a lot more, as do the link pins etc.

Shocks are probably too long if still using standard ones. SSP do a wide range, measure your new length needed and order as required.
Supplying quality in house designed items plus parts from SyncLink, Kennedy Clutches, & CB Performance. Also fitting service including modifications & mechanical upgrades.


camper driver
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by camper driver » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:28 pm

bobley wrote:RUN AWAY!

You cant go changing offsets like that. If the centre of the tyre is inboard of the steering axis it will feel very strange to drive. Will it even self centre?

Cut your losses and go back to a K&L beam, I've spent a fortune on narrower ball joint beam, welded dropped spindles and rediculously expensive shocks and then made a narrowed anti roll bar and it certainly wasn't worth all the hassle and I've just got a few issues to sort... (it does drive very nicely on the fly though)

Ok I,m not complaining about any problems what I didn't mention that running these wheels seemed to eradicate any handling issues I had with standard wheels, that's why I was intigued about any one else doing it.
Offset wheels aren't new, if you look at this link http://www.vwheritage.com/ssp/SSP-Wheel ... -Bay/#5112 then you'll see that all wheels for splitties and bays have varying ET's anyway, essentially no wheels have there centres on the steering axis, this is what the ET measurement is.

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bobley
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by bobley » Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:43 pm

Std wheels have an offset of about 40. Aftermarket wheels have lower offsets and they stick out of the arch more which gives their own odd handling traits as they have more distance to the steering axis and wobbles are fed back into the steering system. If your steelies have higher offset to make the track narrower then their offset must be higher than 40 and therefore the contact patch moves closer to the steering axis or beyond it. This is when you move into negative scrub radius - I think this in itself isn't such a bad thing but if you're on the transition from one to the other (depending on bump/steering angle etc) then I hear it can feel a bit weird.

http://www.speedpedal.com.au/cms/A_1084 ... ticle.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrub_radius


camper driver
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by camper driver » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:02 am

Bobley, thanks for the info, it makes some interesting reading and makes perfect sense. Ive dug a bit deeper and found some more info on wiki and driverstechnologyassosciation.
Still proof of the pudding is in the eating and t drives better now than it did before. When my bus comes back from the sprayers I'll be getting the measureing callipers out and doing some maths


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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by BO JANGLES » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:48 pm

I'm running IRS with Weedeater beam , when I drive on my own it's fine but add another adult & the steering is really tight, as if something is jamming, then if you go over a bump all of a sudden the bus will fly off at an angle. Should I fit dropped spindles or notch the chassis or something else ??????

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bobley
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by bobley » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:59 pm

Yikes. It sounds like your tie rods are hitting the chassis. You need to get the spindles back bored to reverse the mounting of the rod end. This is usually done as part of the "dropping" process. If that doesn't give you enough clearance then notching is the next thing to look at but I would prefer you to raise the suspension a smidgers.


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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by BO JANGLES » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:08 pm

Thanks, what spindles do you reckon ?


welshdevil
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by welshdevil » Sun Jul 18, 2010 2:57 pm

HI GUYS NEW TO THIS SITE, ive just started putting ce irs rear kit onmy 65 splitty.
im looking at the ce steering rack system for the front now,
could you tell me wats best to put on the front end.
wats the point of a narrow beam?
which beams are best but at a fair price as dont want to spend silly money

just want it lowwered a little and a nice smooth ride,
need help so could someone pm me or leave a message on here cheers all
sold my bay for a new kitchen and then sold my bmw convert for my splitty best thing ive ever done

im in cardiff by the way cheers all

paul


ade7
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by ade7 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:32 pm

this thread seems to have been a bit quiet lately.... i too want to go only a couple of inches lower than stock...seems like i could either
1- fit "dropped spindles" and adjusters to raise it back up
2-fit 14" wheels at front and adjusters
3-fit a bay beam and adjusters to get rid of the king & link stuff (presumably, the fitting of a bay beam only causes the suspension to rise because of the greater preload in the torsion spring due to the extra weight of the bay front end)
4- fit Red 9 double wishbone (min 3" drop )combined with longer shocks to bring it back up

rear IRS is so much easier to tweak

lastly, there must be a few people on here who could say how the Red 9 kit performs: there's a long thread about it but very little about whether its really worth it....Adrian

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paul_f
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by paul_f » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:32 pm

ade7 wrote:this thread seems to have been a bit quiet lately.... i too want to go only a couple of inches lower than stock...seems like i could either
1- fit "dropped spindles" and adjusters to raise it back up
Won't work as the gear linkage runs where the adjuster wants to be
ade7 wrote: 2-fit 14" wheels at front and adjusters
3-fit a bay beam and adjusters to get rid of the king & link stuff (presumably, the fitting of a bay beam only causes the suspension to rise because of the greater preload in the torsion spring due to the extra weight of the bay front end)
No it is raised as the torsion tubes are further apart, and the spindles are different dimensions. The suspension is actually higher, the leaves appear to be exactly the same
ade7 wrote: 4- fit Red 9 double wishbone (min 3" drop )combined with longer shocks to bring it back up
It is an expensive way of doing it. I personally wouldn't bother as it is a lot of money. Just fit adjusters and lower as you wish.
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ade7
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by ade7 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:14 pm

thanks for that , Paul....
to get round the adjuster positioning, could i fit just one adjuster to the lower tube, i'm told that dropped spindles plus adjusters to raise has been done

i've got a '58 Kombi which is sitting 50mm higher than stock one side and the whole front mechanicals needs rebuilding, so nows the time for a big change (like the R9D wishbone assy, but i wouldn't use it without beefing it up in a few places)

i've heard people being very pleased with the ride from swapping in a bay beam plus adjusters...i was reading some stuff about bays and it seems the ride/handling improved noticeably in 1970 when the new beam geometry came in, but radials also came in that year, which probably had the greatest efrfect

i'd prefer to keep the ruggedness of the original torsion bar suspension, but ideally want it updated (ball joints, discs, needle rollers around leaf stack, taper rollers on spindle, proper bump stops, anti roll bar etc, and to lose the awkward link pin 20 mm size)....any thoughts....Adrian


johnsons63
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Re: Front Beam Options Technical Topic

Post by johnsons63 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:15 am

very informative thread... im new in this forum but i already learned a lot about Beams by just reading this thread... thanks guys... :cheers:
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