dual circuit brakes

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67USA
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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by 67USA » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:13 pm

just looking into this now, wouldn't mind some definite answers really,

which master cylinder is the one to go from GSF with or with out servo? surely there must be a good reason for it being designed to have a servo? part numbers would be great, its got to be either this

non servo style....
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-TYPE-2-CAMPER- ... 0662364013

servo style
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-TYPE-2-BRAKE-M ... 3950301382


as you can see the servo one is a little cheaper, since ill be staying with drums all round for the time being id like to know which ones the best one to go for.


My van is a 67, which has the 'rare' dual circuit brakes as standard, but its not turned a wheel in 25 years, so im replacing most of the hydrolic side of the brakes! im hoping i can use the original dual master cylinder reservoir+cap on either of the above master cylinders.

Image

Image


im also unsure weather or not i actually need the spacer or not? since mine was duel cylinder from the factory? is the actual positioning of the bracket for master cylinder different for dual master cylinders or did they do a one year only shorter rod?

on a side note for anyone else about to do this to a non 67 van....would it not be just as easy to 'move' the bracket than fabricating a spacer? possibly just as easy to cut down the pin off the master cylinder??

heres a website ive been checking out... its linked earlier in this sticky too...

http://www.aircooledtech.com/dual_MC_upgrade/

once im sure which master cylinder to go for, i can access the rest ie positioning to see if i need the spacer or not, and if the standard dual master cylinder resivior actully fits either master cylinder.

cheers for any help

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bill may
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Re:

Post by bill may » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:45 am

goatboy wrote:I read a US site the other day saying that the last of the splits in 67 had dual circuit - is that a load of cojones?
1967 mwas 1 st year for dual circuit brakes in usa.. 1 year only master cylinder. 1968 is also another 1 year only master. cAjones (testicles/dogs ********) i have no idea what cojones are. :lol:
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Re:

Post by bill may » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:48 am

goatboy wrote:No I just wondered, as mine is a 67 as I haven't looked yet :oops:

Will be up on ramps soon so I can check!

Ade.
early 67 bus had single circuit brakes and no back up lights above tail lights. if a 67 has backup lights above tail ights it will have dual circuit master.
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Re:

Post by bill may » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:53 am

dubbus56 wrote:The way it is shown in our, "how to" is the way CSP recommend you plumb the pipes in. Other systems do use them the other way around. I don't know, in all honesty, if there is more pressure from one part of the master cylinder than the other, but CSP are very clear that they should be put on that way round.
Hope that helps
Ben
1967 dual master has inline residual check valves. they are a hex fitting (2) that goes on master and is between pipe and master. remove the hex and you remove the residual check valve.pipe will then bolt direct to master.
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Re: MC for 4 wheel discs

Post by bill may » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:59 am

vwJim wrote:
choppa wrote:On the point of 4 wheel discs. My brake man tells me to run the Super Beetle MC that I have.
Has anyone got any experience with this on 4 wheel discs.
Anyone used a proportioning valve?

Thanks
Mark

And just as a note. Currently I am running the original(?) single circuit MC and bay discs/drums on my 61. Works great
Mark,

That Super Beetle MC would never have been designed to control discs all round, so if you're going to change it anyway, why not just fit one that was?

And yes, while the single circuit will operate bay window disk, as mine did for a while until I upgraded, again its not designed that way, and can cause braking issues. ie the pads not retracting enough and wearing quicker than they should or over heating the discs.
Super Beetle master bolts on an angle,not same as beetle or type2 bus. your resivoir would be rotated rather than resivoir straight upright.
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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by bill may » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:07 am

vwsplitbus wrote:Looking for some advise on the dual circuit brake kit I received today. Are the holes in the area where the reservoir fits correct? just concerned that they may be blocked by the rubber bungs when reservoir is installed.

Image
Image
Image

one just looks more off than the other 8O

thanks
there should be a shim/washer in it before the bubbers go into it.
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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by 67USA » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:36 pm

http://www.vwheritage.com/vw_act_shop.p ... try_GB.htm

also its DEFIANTLY the late bay servo you need, as the centres are 85mm apart.

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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by Magic8Ball » Mon May 23, 2011 7:43 pm

Does anyone have the part number for the master cylinder, and what was the outcome on the running with drums?? The non servo/servo master cylinder ?? I ask as i've got 2 secondhand kits here and the spacers differ in thickness ??? The M/C's look identical (both Varga) but different markings on the side ?? They look like VW Heritage part number 211-611-021/AA which is listed on their site as the one to use with the conversion kit ?? I Have 2 independant brake lines to the front drums and and a singular line to the rear that tees off to each drum, stock splitty drums front (early with a total of 4 wheel cylinders) and split drums rear with a single wheel cylinder each drum, anyone have experience of different kits, seems the pin that actuates it all is too long in one set up and too short in another ?? Anyone experience of this ? or is it best to custom some other idea as this all seems a bit vague to me...or should that read confusing, just want to order the right parts !!!

On the reservoir front i found a Fiat Panda one worked just fine, plenty of them in scrappers ........... :wink:

CHEERS for any advice :cheers:
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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by 67USA » Mon May 23, 2011 9:53 pm

as far as im aware, the only reason for using the servo one is that the oulet centres are 85mm for the resivoir bottle, and it places it roughly in the orginal position for the hole in the cab floor.

the servo/non servo master cylinder of disc's up front with drums on the rear, or drums all round, or discs all round is all bull .....

ALL the master cylinders are all the same, granted some of the onew from VW (late bay) with reisdual pressure valves into the master cylinders shouldnt be used for discs, but all the master cylinders were talking about are all the same! using a servo master cyliner without a servo wont make any odds either... as its just a normal one, until you bolt up a servo, which just makes the pedal easier to press/less force at your foot to stop.

the part number is on my link to GSF's add above, or get any mastercylinder sesinged for any late (late!) 2.0l bay. its the correct one.

the thickness of the spacers hould all be the same, mines roughly 20mm wide theres also no reason to use these spacers as you can cut down the brake rod, or use a longish M8 bolt, wit ther other end roudned off like the brake pin.

as far as im aware once again the only reason for the spacer is to position the brake resivoir under the hole in the cab floor.

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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by Magic8Ball » Mon May 23, 2011 10:17 pm

Thanks for the reply, it as i thought. I now recall one of these Buses had a disc conversion up front and the kit was from a different supplier to the other so i'm guessing as the particular supplier made his own discs he therefore made his own dual circuit conversion. I'm assuming that the GSF part will be Varga then ...thanks again, Magic8Ball 8)
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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by berpsta » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:15 pm

the master cylinder on my 57 panel seems to be leaking slightly out the rear so what better time to transfer it over to dual circuit brakes . So what do i need ?? and wheres best to get it??? ive heard the CSP ones can leak around the rubber bung area where the reservoir meets MC (has this been resolved?) can i pick up one of the master cylinder/reservoirs from GSF will it fit?? am i correct in thinking only 67's need the spacer thing?


thanks in advance

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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by vwJim » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:33 pm

Never had the res' bungs leak. Always a nice snug fit, once they're all the way home they've sealed.

Your bus will need the spacer ring if you go that route.
Supplying quality in house designed items plus parts from SyncLink, Kennedy Clutches, & CB Performance. Also fitting service including modifications & mechanical upgrades.

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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by berpsta » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:36 pm

vwJim wrote:Never had the res' bungs leak. Always a nice snug fit, once they're all the way home they've sealed.

Your bus will need the spacer ring if you go that route.

cheers for clearing that up Jim ! if i opt not to go the CSP kit route and just buy a standard dual circuit MC will i need a spacer???

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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by vwJim » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:38 pm

Depends on what you plan on doing for a the res'.
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Re: dual circuit brakes

Post by Magic8Ball » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:48 pm

Can someone let me know which outlets do the front and which outlet does the rear ??? I've re-positioned my brake switch and now seem to have balancing issues ?? Someone told me the outlet very nearest to the flange does the rear and the two at the rear (ie furthest away from the flange) do the fronts. My other question is does it matter which of those front two ports (i'm using GSF w servo m/c) can be used for the brake switch ?? Many thanks, Magic8 8)

Forget all the above ... :roll: ..... found the problem, damaged brake pedal......DOH !!
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