Starter motor issues


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cloudinspector
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Starter motor issues

Post by cloudinspector » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:54 pm

I've been having starter motor problems on and off for a while now. After trying two old ones I've fitted a new Bosch starter but I'm still having issues so I'm wondering if the fault is elsewhere. Basically when the ignition key is turned the lights dim slightly but the starter usually doesn't turn. No click, nothing. However occasionally it decides to turn and start ok.
I've removed the starter and re-fitted, checked the connections are good and cleaned a dodgy earth strap. On first try it turned fine then after that nothing.
Could this be a fault in the ignition barrel? I've thought about shorting out the starter to isolate the ignition switch and see if that works.
Any ideas folks?
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Samba63
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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Samba63 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:31 pm

Did you replace the brass bush in the gearbox housing? That's where the end of the spindle of the starter motor engages to complete the circuit to energise the starter motor.
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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Sjtw » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:39 am

I would suggest the bush too if you haven't changed it.
That was the source of my trouble.
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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by cloudinspector » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:10 am

To be honest I haven't changed the bush simply because I didn't think it was that critical. Obviously I was mistaken.
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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Robgrav » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:43 pm

Let me know what bush you need. I have a couple brand new kicking about as I seemed to keep ordering the wrong one when I had starter trouble.


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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by MarkFer » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:45 pm

I have exactly this issue - the exact same symptoms.

Went through the usual, low voltage tests etc. Measured voltage at the starter motor with someone turning the key, all good.

Read on here that the starter motor's bush is part of the circuit and if it is worn then that may give the same symptoms. I assume sometimes it touches the motor shaft so the key works, other times it doesn't.

Then I also read a suggestion to run a 2nd cable from the spare terminal on the back of the starter motor through the bulkhead which you can touch onto the battery terminal directly to test. So I did that. So far after a couple of months EVERY time the starter key fails I go to the back, open the hatch, touch the cable onto the battery terminal and it turns over.

I'd love someone to explain.

Mark.


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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Robgrav » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:51 pm

What starter motor do you have. I ended up running wires, buying new ignition switch, numerous bushes and it turned out to be the starter motor. Months and months I searched and was reluctant to change the starter as it was new on the bus when we bought it. But it was a cheap £70 ish one and complete rubbish. Got a Bosch one now.


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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by MarkFer » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:40 pm

No idea what make mine is, new about 4 years ago but not a Bosch. Still can't understand why mine always works with the direct wire every time the ignition switch doesn't work...

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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Stevep » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:52 pm

Do you have a hot start relay in the starter circuit?


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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Stevep » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:57 pm

Many buses have hot start relays because of distance from ign switch to starter motor!Image


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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by 64beetlebaby » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:38 pm

The bell housing bush has nothing to do with completing the starter circuit

it supports the armature ( end bearing ) if it wears the armature runs off center in the motor housing
this can cause the starter to jam in its housing and not engage when the solenoid is asked to operate it has all the symptoms of a bad connection
or low battery voltage

Starter motors can often be bought back to life with new ( bearings ) bushes at both ends polish the commutator and fit a new set of brushes
once the armature is free to rotate and brush contact is good they will work again

a worn support bush will also cause premature wear on the starter engagement dogs and flywheel


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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by cloudinspector » Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:25 pm

All sorted. New bush fitted and problem solved
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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by Sjtw » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:55 pm

:) great stuff. Well done forum!
Steve

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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by vwJim » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:04 pm

MarkFer wrote:I have exactly this issue - the exact same symptoms.

Went through the usual, low voltage tests etc. Measured voltage at the starter motor with someone turning the key, all good.

Read on here that the starter motor's bush is part of the circuit and if it is worn then that may give the same symptoms. I assume sometimes it touches the motor shaft so the key works, other times it doesn't.

Then I also read a suggestion to run a 2nd cable from the spare terminal on the back of the starter motor through the bulkhead which you can touch onto the battery terminal directly to test. So I did that. So far after a couple of months EVERY time the starter key fails I go to the back, open the hatch, touch the cable onto the battery terminal and it turns over.

I'd love someone to explain.

Mark.

Jen has one of these emergency wires too, as hers used to do the same.

Hot start relay seems to be the solution on hers, so it's volt drop across the loom.
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Re: Starter motor issues

Post by MarkFer » Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:43 pm

Jim - that's what I'd decided on too. I still don't understand why it only sometimes doesn't work though. How do you get a variable voltage drop? Dodgy connection somewhere? The state of the battery charge (not completely flat of course) doesn't seem to effect when it does/does not work.

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