Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

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DoubleD
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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

Post by DoubleD »

Nice steering setup you have there! I've done something similar myself, using the same type of rack but non-powered (see pics).

Interesting to see that you have managed to retain the anti-roll bar - I couldn't achieve that with mine. However, it's all bolt-on, with no welded brackets anywhere to allow everything to be returned to stock if required by some future owner, so maybe I'll re-think my design at some point and do it again. I'm sure an anti-roll bar is worth having.

I'm also running 4-pot Wilwood disc brakes up front but I fitted one of Jim's in-line servos at the same time. They feel just like modern car brakes - minimal pedal effort and very reassuring. If you are sold on power steering (and who wouldn't be), you'd love power brakes too. Well worth the extra expense.

Dave.

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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

Post by passion4 »

That looks great!

Yeah, I’ve been giving VWJims servo kit some serious thought, I’m sure it would be a great upgrade and be a big plus to the driving experience :)
‘impossible just shows a lack of imagination’

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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

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You won't regret it.

I was quite happy before, but now I'm jealous of your power steering!
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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

Post by passion4 »

:lol: now you’ve made me want a servo, and I was only supposed to be thinking about engines!
‘impossible just shows a lack of imagination’

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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

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Haha! Oh well, it's only money - but when do we call a halt to these things? There's always something else that would be 'nice to have'!!
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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

Post by Gemmas »

Hi Dave
Sorry if old post , do you have to modify the rear valence ? Do you no where i can get modified front and rear to tinware ?
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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

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Hi Gemmas,

Well it was an old post but it seems to have come back to life recently, so no problem.

If like me you use a Vintage Speed muffler (although there are one or two others that might be suitable), you won't have to modify the rear valance at all - but you will need to use short headers (J-tubes) or shortened heat exchangers to position the muffler as it would be when using a Type 1 engine.

Jake Raby used to supply special tinware that fitted around his DTM shroud, but I'm not sure whether that is still available. If you are using a different shroud (eg. Porsche type) you may have to make up the tinware yourself. Might be worth looking at the CSP, BBT or KK websites. The 'German Look' Beetle also uses a Type4 motor (and usually a Porsche fan) so maybe you could follow up on any sites that cover that particular modification.

If you are using a DTM shroud I may still have the templates (somewhere!) that I used to make my own tinware with. The front tin (ie. gearbox end of engine) is pretty much the same as the stock 1700, 1800 and 2L bus piece - only slight mods required if I remember correctly. The shape of the side tins depends on the inlet manifolds you will be using. These pieces are not very big and can be cut and filed out of thin ally sheet, as can the rear tin. It's not a difficult exercise - if you have basic skills and a few simple tools it can all be done fairly easily, it just requires time and patience!

Cheers, Dave.
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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

Post by Gemmas »

How do you shorten the heat exchangers ? Remove
The shroud ? Around the heat exchangers?
And is the csp kit with the sandwich plate anygood ?

Who else makes the kits to upright , thinking using a type 1 fan housing as Porsche it in the future

Thanks
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Re: Type1 v Type4 engines – differences/benefits between them?

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If you look back through this thread, there is a pic of a shortened heat exchanger.

If doing it yourself, you would need to cut through the casing (and internal fins, if any) to expose the actual header pipe. Then you would cut the header pipe to the right length for positioning the muffler mounting flange at the right point such that the muffler fits inside the standard rear valance. A new muffler flange would need to be welded onto the now shorter header pipe (you can buy the flanges from Vintage Speed) and the now open end of the heat exchanger closed off. The heat exchangers will need to be removed for cutting and welding but also refitting repeatedly to get the dimensions right. Note: check my previous posts on this thread regarding the air supply for the heat exchangers.

The shroud is the fibreglass housing that encases the fan and partly supports the alternator, ie. equivalent to the stock Type 1 fan housing. You can make a Type 1 fan housing do the same job but the cooling to number 3 cylinder is said to be inadequate. I believe there are ways to overcome this if you use a doghouse fan housing as the basis. I suggest you look up Joe Cali on the internet - he was probably the first person to make one and his design was the basis of Jake Raby's DTM system.

Note that the shroud does not cover the heat exchangers at all.

CSP sell some fibreglass parts to enable the stock Type 1 fan housing to be used on a Type 4 engine, but again I'm not sure about the cooling effectiveness on number 3. Also I think you have to re-position the oil cooler with this setup, whereas the DTM shroud incorporates the stock Type4 oil cooler in a similar way to a doghouse housing.

I don't know of any other upright conversions.

Hope this helps.

Dave (D).
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