Options for all new suspension?

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dubberdean
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Options for all new suspension?

Post by dubberdean » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:35 am

Hi guys,

I've been reading my James Hale Suspension, Brakes and Chassis modifying book and obviously a few threads on here, but i'm aware that new products become avaiable all the time and recommendations and preferences change as time goes by.

What i'm wanting is a complete new suspension and brake set up. I don't want to use second hand or reconditioned parts.

I would like a complete 'off the shelf' set-up.

I was looking at the CE air beams but i've heard such mixed reviews that i'm unsure if it's worth the £3k+

With regards to brakes, i'd like to go for a dual circuit servo'd disc system, both front and rear. I'm sorted with the master cylinder and servo from Jim from Skinta but unsure on what disc conversion kit?

I want to run a turbo engine, so i'm going to be using a rancho or equivalent gearbox and i think i'd rather go IRS that straight axle.

But the main desire is to order all the necessary parts new and require as minimal 'modifying' to the bus to fit as possible.

Your thoughts please?

Dean

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Post by bobley » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:34 am

There aren't any new bolt on conversions available to transform a splitty.

A company called Red 9 Design have developed a double wishbone front end for a Beetle but as much as in concept its a good idea I think it has had to have some compromises to make it fit without major chassis surgery.

http://www.red9design.co.uk/wishbones.htm

Your best bet is to take the bus to a specialist who could fabricate a front subframe to suit the suspension arms, uprights and steering steering system from a donor vehicle. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a something like a Lotus Elise??

I have had a conversation with a company called Intergalactic in Shipston who sounded promising but my project has slipped too far already.

http://www.thomsonlocal.com/Intergalact ... yinfo.html

I was thinking about using my balljoint bay uprights connected to double wishbones and a steering rack with adjustable coilover shocks. Its a couple of grands worth of custom fabrication but it would be nice in the end. From then on its just a matter of bolting on Porsche brakes to cope with the power (but I've already got those anyway).

At the rear I dont think there's any need for serious work. Any decent 944 based IRS system will allow you a decent ride and the matching Porsche brakes would bolt straight on (I've used all 944 1986 non ABS Turbo parts from one vehicle so I know exactly what I need in future when I got to GSF for spares). All the other IRS systems will also work with big brakes but it made more sense to stick with stock parts.

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Post by dubberdean » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:04 pm

Thanks for that Bobley.

I think maybe that's too much fabrication for my first project, although it sounds ingenious.

What would you consider the best of what's readily available?

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Post by bobley » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:22 pm

Its hard to say whats best, but basically it comes down to ball joint vs king and link pin. Everything else is just variations on a theme. Narrowing is only to get wheels in arches. Handling and ride suffer in proportion to narrowing so I'm staying std track for now.

You can fit coilover shocks which improve matters but the single shear bolt on the trailing arm scares me.

At the moment I'm going to try a lowered ball joint beam with ARB and bespoke race spec gas shocks on the camper and lowered stock beam with drop spindles on the crewcab with normal Spax adj shox probably. I think the balljoint set up will probably handle better and the K&L drop spindles will ride better...we'll see!

Meanwhile I'm going to buy an old 944 crossmember front end and offer it up to see if I could adapt the 944 front to fit? I know a 911 front end has been fitted to the gumball bus but I was quoted £26K by the guy who built it to build another.

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Post by orb » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:13 pm

I had a long chat with the guys at RED 9 yesterday at Stoner and they are working on that complete bolt on double wishbone front end for a bus as well as the beetle - it should be available in the next couple of months they seem to think.
They are also making rather nice looking beams now with their coilover system on - including bump stops for those worried about the single bolts issue (lets not get into that debate again).

Of more interest to me however is the soon to be released power rack and pinion steering set up for a bus that they reckon will be a complete kit for about £350 8O - now that I am keeping an eye on.

If you have the bucks then Jez Parsons will do you a whole new front subframe that takes the complete front suspension and brakes from a 911 - as he has on his bus - this system rocks but is very, very expensive (but about as sexy as you'll ever get under a bus :wink: )

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Post by dubberdean » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:28 pm

911 front end sounds beyond exciting, but seeing as mine's just an 11 window lhd kombi, then spending £26k on that might be a little bit OTT!

Seems like there might be some interesting products coming to the market soon then, looking good for bus owners!

Bolt on double wishbone sounds perfect, unfortunately i bet 'a couple of months' will run on to at least a year :(

I wonder how RED9 will get around the supposed 'patented' rack and pinion set up for splitty's that CE have.

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Post by dubberdean » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:29 pm

Do Red 9 have a website? Not heard of them before?

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Post by Russ T » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:35 pm

[quote="

Bolt on double wishbone sounds perfect, unfortunately i bet 'a couple of months' will run on to at least a year :(




I was speaking to the dude at r9 and he was saying it has taken months to develop the bug version set up and make jigs etc and although there is plans for a split version it will need to be developed and it may be more than a few months to do this and build a prototype and test !

whats wrong with a new adj beam and some dropped spindals for disk brakes ?

What do you think of the book I am just reading it at the mo?

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Post by Russ T » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:37 pm

red9designHere at Red9Design we have been working hard over the winter months to bring a range of new products to the aftermarket Volkswagen scene. ...
www.red9design.com/ - 12k

from google!

he was based in evesham but has recently move up to sheffield. i dunno if he has his unit sorted out up there yet ?

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Post by orb » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:56 pm

[quote="I wonder how RED9 will get around the supposed 'patented' rack and pinion set up for splitty's that CE have.[/quote]

that is utter crap - he can not patent something that been done hundreds of times over - in fact I'm really surprised that the magazines will even print his ad with that on the bottom.
He might have a case if someone was to directly copy the design of say his cradle but that's about it.
He does this a lot to try and protect his investement - which is understandable.
I like some of CE's stuff and run a lot of it on my bus with no issues but I don't like the way he slates RED 9 kits all the time and at any given opportunity - the debates have been done to death on every forum so there's no need - either you like it or you don't - simple as that, but don't try and trash someone else's livelyhood that's just wrong (and I've heard many complaints about his stuff but no one seems to have the balls to come out and shame him).

Rant over

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Post by passion4 » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:44 pm

orb wrote:Of more interest to me however is the soon to be released power rack and pinion steering set up for a bus that they reckon will be a complete kit for about £350 8O - now that I am keeping an eye on.
hmmmm, interesting indeed! 8)
‘impossible just shows a lack of imagination’

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Post by dubberdean » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:55 pm

Russ T wrote: whats wrong with a new adj beam and some dropped spindals for disk brakes ?

What do you think of the book I am just reading it at the mo?
I suppose nothing would be wrong with a new beam and dropped spindles, but still so many options on that front that i'd love some recommendations.

The book is pretty good, i think in places you can tell it's 8 years old but the theory behind the modifications will always be timeless.


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Post by Fuchs Lee » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:33 am

Boxwagen do a bolt on IRS kit. It's what I have on my bus along with the bay window a-arm and hubs. I'll let you know how it rides in about a month. I've used it because I didn;t want to muck about with cutting the chassis and if I want to go back to stock I can.

Up front I'm using a boxwagen 4" beam as the bushes are top quality with dropped spindles and csp discs.

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Post by robmccreedie » Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:17 pm

that £350 sterring rack sounds very interesting

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Post by dubberdean » Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:35 pm

Fuchs Lee wrote:Boxwagen do a bolt on IRS kit. It's what I have on my bus along with the bay window a-arm and hubs. I'll let you know how it rides in about a month. I've used it because I didn;t want to muck about with cutting the chassis and if I want to go back to stock I can.

Up front I'm using a boxwagen 4" beam as the bushes are top quality with dropped spindles and csp discs.
Do Boxwagen have a website as yet?

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